The Production Of Death Metal Guru Scott Burns

In so many words when it came to bashing out the most brutal Death Metal of the late-eighties, early nineties, everyone went to Scott for extreme metal production. Scott Burns was the fucking man. Thanks goes to Albert Mudrian, too, as he helped me to get in touch with Scott , as Scott is a very private person lives a normal life free from the stench of bile, down tuned, satanic madness. I grabbed a gatorade and let em rip.

 

Hi Scott, first up thanks a lot for taking the time to answer my questions. I’m really glad about that and this means a lot to me. So, how are you?

 
I’m well. Just took my son to his first t-ball practice. Just working as usual and watching the kids get bigger. Summer is coming and looking forward to working outside around the house and doing some boating.
 

What are you up to these days? How does your average day look like?

 
I work doing computer programming. It is a normal 40-60 hour a week job. I guess you could say 9-5.
 

Do you still have contacts within the Metal scene and do you follow whats happening in the scene?

 
I do not actively do follow the music scene or do any recording. I still see some of the guys who are local. OBITUARY, CANNIBAL CORPSE. I saw Steve Asheim briefly for the first time last year and that was nice. He was always a great person to work with and good guy. Like I said I work a lot and typically I work out of town so when I‘m home I just tend to spend time with my family. It would be nice to see the guys more but as you get older it gets harder to stay out later. I guess my clock is a little different now. I typically get up early and go to bed early. 

I read you were a Death Metal fan yourself! Which records impressed you the most lately? If any.

 
Well I’m sorry to disappoint but I don’t listen to much new music anymore except the Disney channel when my kids are in the car. I did get the new G & R record and there are some great tracks on it like the title track and ‘Better’. I do like VELVET REVOLVER but typically I listen to satellite radio. Usually I listen to NPR and NFL network. I have been listening to THE CURE “Pornography” and ECHO AND THE BUNNYMEN “Heaven Up Here” some old BAUHAUS. Those albums have some great dark songs and I love the drumming.

The reason for this interview is pretty simple. How does it feel to recognize that there is still a certain (or better: huge) interest in your person after all these years since your departure from your activities as a producer?

 
It is quite flattering to think there is interest in the work I, we, the bands and I did back then. I was very lucky to have been able to work at a great studio and work with a lot of cool bands. You can be a very good engineer and do demos for bands that no one likes and no one will care but work with popular bands and you’re a genius.
Did you often get asked to answer interviews?

 
I guess I end up doing interview a couple times a year. Typically when it is a slow news day I guess .

Let’s start from the very beginning: how did you get the job as a producer? Was it more or less by accident, or was it some kind of “a dream came true”?

 
When I was around 18-19 some friends of mine had a band and needed a soundman. So Mike, the guitarist, taught me all he knew about doing sound and that was the start. They eventually won a battle of the bands contest or something like that which won recording time at a recording studio. And I became hooked on studio work instead of live audio. No crappy sounding rooms, no drunks spilling beer on the board etc. So after the recording I looked for a good studio to record at in Tampa and the only professional place was Morrisound. So I would go in with the bands and Jim, Tom and Rick would make sure I did not screw things up too bad and record with various local bands and the bands and I would split the cost. I eventually got a job as an assistant engineer there, not sure how but that was around 83-85.

How did you get the necessary experience or did you get taught by someone?

 
As mentioned I learned from Tom, Jim and Rick Miller. As an assistant you work a lot of hours so things like setting up the console, microphone techniques, instrument tuning, machine calibration etc. you get a lot of practice doing. And like I said if you work at a place with very good technical engineers you will learn a lot.

As far as I know your first producer-job was for OBITUARY’s “Slowly We Rot”.

 
Rick Miller was the original engineer on that record. I knew the Tardy brothers because they had been coming to the studio for quite some time. Rick left for another project so I took over. The producer tag was a kind gesture by the band. We were just friends and I would do sound for them and NASTY SAVAGE occasionally when they played locally.

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One of your next jobs was to fly to Brazil to record SEPULTURA’s classic “Beneath The Remains”. You were pretty young back then, how did you consider this trip? As a chance or as a new experience or probably just as a job which “someone had to do”?

 
It was great. I was in college and the OBITUARY guys had been playing their latest album “Schizophrenia” so I was aware of the band somewhat. Roadrunner had contacted numerous producers but because the budget was small, it was over Christmas, they were an unknown band, and they were Death Metal. Roadrunner used me as a last alternative

How was the stay in Brazil? “Choosing Death” already offered some anecdotes about this trip!

 
It was a great time. Brazil was beautiful. We spent the days, when not sleeping, at the beach and recorded at night. At the time communication was difficult because their English and my Portuguese was not too good. We were there for about 21 days. I remember the cars ran on alcohol which was unheard in the states back then. I plugged up my sink to see if water really drained counter clockwise in the southern hemisphere. All of my stuff got stolen, cassette boom box and tapes etc., the first day at the hotel. We had to pay off the airport security guards to get the equipment in to the country so Roadrunner had to send more money. I got to have a beer at the Veloso bar that inspired the song ‘Girl From Ipanema’.  Inflation was 1000%, so each day the price went up on items. When we paid for the additional equipment rental at the end it cost about $50.00 extra. And while you never know how a band will do you always get a feeling when working with a band whether or not the band is really working hard and dedicated which give them a chance and they certainly were hard working. It was an amazing experience.

I suppose “Beneath The Remains” can be taken as your most successful recording and considering the fact that it was one of your earliest jobs, too, it’s even more amazing. What’s your point of view regarding that?

 
Never look a gift horse in the mouth. No one wanted to go to Brazil over Christmas to record a Death Metal band for very little money. I said hell yeah. Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good

What actually is the job of a producer for those who don't know. How long did an average production take? Did you have to work under a lot of time pressure?

 
For the Death Metal genre producing was more about being responsible for trying to get a high quality recording and making minor changes to the songs arrangements etc if possible. In the beginning most of the recordings were done in about 7 to 14 days so that is pretty quick. And the labels were willing to let you run over budget and ask for an additional $10,000.00 to finish. As a way to make up for time we typically worked more than our 12 hour a day block of studio time, so if we could get in 14-18 hours in a day that would be equivalent of having a larger budget.

What do you think is the most important attribute of a producer?

 
Well I think to start with you have to be technically competent. You need to be a good engineer. When you’re done the product needs to sound professional. I think this is an easier task to accomplish nowadays since technology has advanced so far. But back in the earlier days it was more difficult due to the lack of recording technology. For instance, using analogue tape, limited number of tracks, bouncing tracks using analogue tape etc. On the creative side I think the most important aspect is to make the artist feel at home and inspired in the studio. If they feel comfortable and are relaxed in an environment that is pretty foreign compared to playing live or in a rehearsal hall I think the recording will probably come out well. Being diplomatic is always a good approach when trying to get your point across especially when recommending change. It is fine to be straightforward and tough but you had better have the trust of the group you are working with or soon you won’t be working with them again.

How long did you work as a producer?

 
I worked at Morrisound from 83-96 approximately. Like I said due to budget constraints we typically worked 7 days a week 12-16 hours a day. For a few years there I bet I worked 7 days a weeks for very long stretches. As the bands became more successful the recording budgets increased typically and if they lived in Tampa this allowed a more leisurely recording schedule.

All of a sudden everyone was talking about Scott Burns – the Death Metal producer. Wasn’t it strange how fast everything developed in this direction?
Yes it was and it was simply because of the bands. I was just lucky to be surrounded by a lot of great bands. A band and record label typically hire a producer for one of two reasons. You recorded that band’s favourite record or the label wants the producer because they are popular at the time.

Bands like the German ATROCITY came to Florida to record their debut album with you, Germany’s MORGOTH asked you to do the mix of their 2nd MLP “The Eternal Fall” and French LOUDBLAST came to record their “Sublime Dementia” album at Morrisound. Was it your fame, your capabilities, “your” sound, the name “Scott Burns” or probably the name of “Morrisound”?

 
I think Morrisound gave Death Metal a legitimate professional sound and bands wanted to be a part of that. Plus there was an understanding that we understand and liked Metal so there was a certain comfort zone. Plus if you were young and in a band wouldn’t you want to fly half way around the world to record an album. Also some of the bands lived in Tampa so bands from around the world could come hang out where the scene originated I guess. It was a scene and everyone likes to be a part of the ‘in’ crowd .

What was so significant of this so-called “Scott Burns-sound”? What do you think was the reason for your fame?

 
As I said I think Morrisound was known for Metal: SAVATAGE, CRIMSON GLORY, NASTY SAVAGE, DAMAJ, AGENT STEEL, WHIPLASH before the Death Metal scene gained momentum. As you know there were a lot of Death Metal bands in our area and even CANNIBAL CORPSE started coming down from Buffalo from day 1. I was just lucky to be a part of a great scene with a lot of great bands. I tried to make the records sound heavy and professional, especially the drums.

Some labels even requested a “Scott Burns”-production like e. g. Nuclear Blast as far as I know. Did you recognize that the whole movement turned out to become a huge trend?

 
  think I realized it when it had a negative connotation instead of a positive one. Since I really was enjoying the bands I didn’t think pay too much attention either way.

The strange thing is even that you and Morrisound were such big names in the scene you were (as far as I know) more or less forced to work as cheap as possible. I mean, quality has its price, even more if it is quality produced by a person which already got a name in the scene. How did you see your position in this industry?

 
Looking back I guess I could have charged more. I did not take points from the band. But as I said I was really enjoying it and never had aspirations to be a pop or commercial success. I always like music that was more or less underground. And at the time I saw how hard it was for the bands to make money so I figured my job was more secure than theirs so why take more of their money like everyone else does.

In “Choosing Death” you said that every record needed to be done fast and cheap. So producing all these Death Metal records turned out to be some kind of assembly line work, right?

 
I don’t know if I would call it an assembly line but when you can only do so much with the budget you have. Just like anything the more you repeat a process the more streamlined it becomes. I suppose on the creative side there is a downside to this. Nowadays everyone records at home and has a Pro-Tools rig. In the time period we mentioned studios were very expensive and Pro-Tools, ADAT machines and digital recording was just beginning to become available without having to rent a Sony X850 for $1500.00 a day. And you tell me, pick an artist you like that has recorded multiple albums. Assuming the budgets went up and more money was spent do you see a signifigant improvement each recording?

Though you mostly recorded Death and Thrash Metal records I read that you did some regular rock albums, too.

 
Each genre has its own challenges. Perhaps recording fast heavy bands is more technically challenging because every member wants everything up front and audible. With slower more melodic bands there tend to be more open spaces or pockets to let particular instruments shine through. Also when you start moving away to more commercial standard rock acts there is more of an emphasis put on arrangements and vocal melodies.

Did these limits to be a “Death Metal producer” annoy you?

 
In the end yes it was somewhat disheartening because I wanted to try something other than Death Metal that still had an edge or what not straight ahead mainstream rock etc. I did get to record great bands like PSYCHOTIC WALTZ and do some remixes for GRAVITY KILLS and KMFDM which was very cool. Looking back though I think it was ok. I had so much fun and got to make great music with a lot of great band that I really liked. And to be honest there wasn’t a new scene that I was really getting into. I think I was just getting older and more focused on things outside of music like computers.

I can imagine that it was a tough job to produce all these newcomers which probably couldn’t handle their instruments pretty well or just were one of so many similar bands without an own identity. At the end many of these records just wanted the sticker “produced by Scott Burns” on them.

 
I guess at first it was fine because I tried to approach it as there are always something good on each demo I received and it is not my job to dictate what is signed and not signed. But eventually as bands start to sound more and more alike or sounding like other larger bands of the genre that made it harder to enjoy the music.

Wasn’t it strange that nearly all Death Metal albums beginning of the nineties had to have a cover from Dan Seagrave and a sound either from Tomas Skogsberg or Scott Burns?

 
Everyone likes a McDonald’s hamburger now don’t they?

Do you have some funny, strange or even sad anecdotes of your time as a producer?

 
"DEICIDE – I remember back when they were AMON and were playing a show with MORBID ANGEL and NOCTURNUS in Tampa. It was on someones property slightly out of town and the stage was elevated about six feet off the ground. As part of the show there were hanging statues of religious icons. During the show Glen smashes them and they were filled with guts and blood. Well the next you know the owner had some large dogs and they were sitting there eating all the parts from under the stage. It was bizarre. I got to go to Europe to do sound for DEATH and CANNIBAL for a two week festival tour. It was amazing. We made a stop in Poland and I’ll never forget thinking how lucky we are that our government as screwed up as it may be was at least not a police state run. The kids could not stage dive at the show because the police / military guys would beat them with their batons that were simply metal rebar cover with rubber.

I remember doing sound for NASTY SAVAGE and IMPALER. Curtis was a great drummer, fast as a shark. Mick Harris – sorry that it didn’t work out the way you wanted. I remember sitting in my truck and we compared “Harmony Corruption” to ENTOMBED and he was bummed because we did not have that heavy Swedish sound. Steve Digorgio - if I could remix one album it would be “Human” so we could bring up your bass. LOUDBLAST – sorry guys you were not happy with “Sublime”. Vinny from DEMOLITION HAMMER - Steve and Vinny were great. Vinny’s father passed away before we started recording. A great guy and what can you say to play through that was amazing. Rest in Peace Vinny. Chuck Schuldiner – For years Chuck always had severe migraine headaches maybe this was part of the cancer that took his life. Rest in peace Metal brother! EXHORDER – these guys were one of my favourite bands of all time. I’m sorry we never got to do a complete recording and that we were always replacing tracks. Chris was a monster drummer. TRANS METAL – these guys were the cool. They were from Mexico and worked very hard. We used to go to a Bucs football game each time. OBITUARY – I remember doing their sound before “Slowly...” came out and they had a multi level stage, flash pots, fog, Spanish moss. It looked so cool to see a band do that in local club. ATHEIST - They had a really an original sound. Roger was an incredible talented and naturally gifted musician. I am glad to hear they are going to record again. Rest in Peace Roger. CANNIBAL CORPSE – Like OBITUARY these guys are like family. I always had such a good time hanging out and recording. We used to play a lot of video hockey for hours and hours in the studio. They drove down the first year in Jack’s van and paid for their own living expenses etc. to record. Metal Blade only gave them $5000.00 to record. They were dedicated from the beginning. Steve Asheim – He should get an award for all of he done for DEICIDE. Super talented musician and cool guy. He has kept that band together. The first album is one of the best ever. Darren Travis - What’s upppppp, I’m in your face ;-) Jason Rawhead - I recoded these guys in Belgium and spent a quite a time there. Steven, Dirk, and Jan of Hype Studios were some of the coolest guys I have ever worked with. I really enjoyed my stay there and they treated me like family. It was awesome to spend a month in Europe.

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To be honest, some Death Metal musicians are, let’s say, different. How did you manage to get along with them?

 
I didn’t think overall they were different at all they reminded me of myself when I was growing up listening to any type of music that my parents didn’t like.

As far as I know you didn’t produce one single Black Metal record. Why? Were you asked by any of these bands or were you simply not interested?

 
Well there was a movement against me in the beginning by the Black Metal bands and to be honest while I thought they had the ‘look’ part of it I thought musically they were not as good as their Death Metal brothers. To me it reminded me of why I quit listening to Punk when I was young, because I wanted something that was more technical in nature.

All of a sudden your fame disappeared and everyone said your recordings sounded all the same. What do you think was the problem? And what actually is the truth?

 
Everything comes to an end and the scene was winding down. It was hard for labels to find new original bands. You could listen to a demo and clearly hear the influences for the larger bands. And as I said previously everyone develops a sound even producers / engineers and when you are constrained by minimal recording budgets it becomes even harder to experiment. Also as the bands careers progressed they dictated more of the direction or sound that they wanted to have. All in all I think it is a natural progression that occurs with every genre and scene. C'est la vie.

Monte Conner (Roadrunner’s A&R-manager) said “We discovered him (Scott Burns) and he did some great work but you shouldn’t as a label, or as a band, stick too long with one producer.” I mean, you were some kind of house producer for Roadrunner and then they got “rid of you”. To hear something like this wasn’t it like a stab in the back?

 
I see a psychiatrist weekly every since I read that from Monte. I am thinking about going on Oprah and using that as my excuse for getting fat and bald, well I’m really not bald but I am a little out of shape. Maybe I could sue Roadrunner and get some free CDs or merchandise out of it

(I wouldn't feel bad if you have seen Monte Conner lately, you'd think all those millions he has hed be in shape with a head full of hair haha..)

Did you see yourself as some kind of scapegoat or victim?

 
Yes I feel like a scapegoat and victim. I have setup a website to support victims like myself. If you have a paypal account you can make a donation to stop this type of abuse ha

Was that one of the reasons why you quit working as a producer?

 
  John Tardy had bought me my first PC. I like computers very much and more and more aspects of recording were software driven. I went back to college and took some programming classes. I was offered a job by a small technology company and decided I wanted to take it. Once I had been there for a year I knew that I did not want to go back it was time to move on."

Imagine you didn’t quit your producer job, what would you be up to today? Do you think you had a future in your job?

 
Sorry but you could not pay me money to go back to being a recording engineer again. That was a part of my life which I loved but I do not want to go back and do it again. I love programming, I love being with my family and having a 9-5 job. I know that is not exciting but it is the truth. Maybe when I’m 60 I will wake up and want to record again but right now no thanks.

What’s your opinion of the work of producers like Colin Richardson, Tomas Skogsberg, Dan Swanö or Peter Tägtgren? All of them are more or less known for their classics they produced for the Death Metal genre. I surely believe they don’t want to be labelled as Death Metal producers.

 
I’m sure they are still accomplished engineers / producers but I have no idea what these guys are doing these days, sorry.

Are you still in touch with the staff and bosses from Morrisound?

 
Yes I see Tom, Jim and Rick from time to time we just had a 25 year anniversary of the studio. Almost everyone made it back. It was great to reminisce about the good old days. Jim and Tom still do a lot of work as you know."

I can't  believe that you have so many negative emotions about this era in a way,  but surely also great moments. Do you miss these days?

 
I don’t have any negative or sad emotions at all. It was a wonderful time in my life. But I could say the same about my career now I love software development I wouldn’t change jobs for anything. I miss seeing the bands and our friendships but I still run into them on occasion and always enjoy catching up."

Talking about the Death Metal scene back then. There were 2 scenes everyone was talking about: the American / Tampa-scene and the Swedish one. As you were highly involved in the Tampa-scene did you ever want to produce one of the Swedish bands (e. g. ENTOMBED, DISMEMBER, UNLEASHED…)? What did you think about the European Death Metal scene compared to the American one?

 
I really like the first ENTOMBED record, it was super heavy. I would have enjoyed recording those guys.!!

I think we can easily call this whole Death Metal movement a phenomenon. What attracted you the most, what do you think was the reason why it became such a trend, or as popular as it was and now again is?

 
It has lots of elements that kids like. Metal, anarchy, rebellion, black t-shirts all of these things kids like. Why did I like UFO, RUSH, THIN LIZZY, DEEP PURPLE and stuff like that when I grew up? It is just a generation or so evolved.

And how did you see all these things happening like tape trading,  fanzines…?

 
Pretty funny how it has changed huh? Yes fanzines like that were common and the norm back then. I remember when the studio got our first CD burner. A blank disc cost $15.00 and it recorded in real-time. I remember Ronnie from NASTY SAVAGE was the king of the fanzines. He was always getting SAVAGE press even before their first album came out.

What do you think about a book like “Choosing Death” (where you also were one of the participants) and how the scene and basically the whole movement was explained in it?

 
Albert rocks, he did a very good job. Even though his Philadelphia Phillies beat my Tampa Bay Ray in the World Series.

 

At any time was there a recording where you said, “Damn if they had chosen me as the producer, this album could be a masterpiece!”?

 
Sorry, not really no.

Some of the bands were and probably still are very popular, like e. g. DEICIDE, MORBID ANGEL or OBITUARY. Many expected that they made it and could live a quite comfortable life as result of their success. But do you think they are happy with their lives and with what they achieved?

 
Sure they get to play their music in front of fans all across the world and get paid for it. What musician would not want that? There are a lot of talented musicians that have to have a day job because they can’t get a deal. These guys have done well for themselves. They should be very proud of their accomplishments as long as you put two feet on the ground everyday life is good. Life is what you make of it and everyone is entitled to live life as they think best. I don’t see how you can say one is better than another. Different strokes for different folks…Although I don’t think Rush Limbaugh and Glen Benton are going to do a duet anytime soon.

If I’m correct you said back in 1995 or something that the good Death Metal bands will stick around and the other just fade away. Now more than 10 years later how do you judge this sentence?

 
I think it is true for any genre. Bands that had something original to offer and continued to work hard at their craft and took it seriously are still together.

You said in “Choosing Death” (quote): “In my experience, there were very few bands that on their third and fourth record were putting out better records than their first or their second or even a demo.” I mean, I have to agree with you on that and also the sales figures show that. But how do you see that point now connected with all the bands like DEICIDE or OBITUARY which are still (or again) active and releasing albums on a regular way?

 
They are institutions of Metal just like METALLICA, SLAYER, etc. As long as they work hard and want to be successful they can continue to record and perform. There is a generation that was not able to see these bands in their heyday as it were so now they can. It is no different than THE EAGLES, SPANDAU BALLET, GRATEFUL DEAD. Do Metal fans even buy METALLICA records anymore?  They just want to hear the hits.

I think one of your last jobs was to work together with your buddies from OBITUARY for their “Frozen In Time” record. Why did you start again?

 
"t was really done by the band and Mark Prator. I just stopped by to see the guys again. They are like family and I don’t get to see Trevor and Frank so much since they no longer live in Tampa. Plus they offered me free beer so what could I say.

  Scott, I think this turned out to be a long one haha shit...

 
Thanks for the interest and thanks again to all the great bands that made it possible!!!" 

 

Thomas Ehrmann